yes, we have had the same issues in california.  not olnly did they try not to pay but we also had an insurer make us call when the panel was sanded  so he could photo it in order to add it to his supplement and would not pay it on the original. what a waste of time! we have implamneted a new SOP for this . i hope this helps and i suggest we all do the same! we do not accept the terms" de-nib and polish" any longer. according to the BAR  we have to get approval prior to repairs and the repairs we are getting approval for is FINISH sand and buff the entire painted panel. we use documentation from differant paint manufatures and our local  assosations. these clearly state the fallowing.

(ppg doc#PD-0804) " EVEN WITH EXTREME CARE IN CLEANLINESS AND PREPARATION PROCEDURES,DIRT AND PARTICULATES CAN LAND IN CLEARCOAT FILM DURING THE APPLICATION AND DRYING PROCESS. THE OEM ENVIROMENT CAN NOT BE ENTIRELY DUPLICATED IN A COLLISION REPAIR FACILITY FOR THESE AND OTHER REASONS: 1 THE VEHICLE IS PAINTED AT THE FACTORY AS A SHELL BEFORE ANY NON-PAINTED PARTS ARE ATTACHED. 2. THE VEHICLE CAN BE CLEANED THROUGHLY TO ELIMINATE DUST DIRT,AND HAS NEVER 'BEEN ON THE ROAD'. 3. THE VEHICLE IS PAINTED WITH A COMPUTER CONTROLLED ROBOTICS FOR CONSISTENT TEXTURE" this dovcument also state "WHEN REMOVING MULTIPLE SPOTS IN ANY GIVEN PANEL IT MAY BE NECASSARY TO GRADUALLY SAND OR LEVEL THE TEXTURE AWAY FROM THE AREA FROM SOME OR NO TEXTURE IN APPERANCE TO TEXTURE MATCHING OEM APPEARANCE. THIS PROCEDURE MAY ENTAIL SANDING TO SOME DEGREE THE ENTIRE PANEL" the only process that explaines this properly is finish sand and polish for this includes to sand the entire panel. this is 30% of the basecoat time and does not include materials. not .5 per panel  flat rate that our industry is use to accepting. this would be the same as charging the same  time to paint a suburban hood and a civic fender.and capping after the first 2.5 hours of finish sand and buff is also unreasonable for the remander of a newly painted vehicle will not buff itself.

bottom line is that we relize that in our "real world" enviroment, defects such as dirt in clearcoat and texture differences are an unavoidable result of even the most careful human workmanship.most of this is received out of our local auotbody assosations bulliten. i hope this can be some assistance to our peers in the autobody industry. we are the professionals that take the challenge for our customers and we deserve to be compensated for quality we bring.

 

 

I disagree with Canamm's remarks - a Bodyman's work should be valued MORE than a mechanic's. I've worked as both in the past and I think I speak for everyone when I say it's easier to R&R shocks, brakes, etc than it is to refinish a car.

BILL

 

Again some in this industry do not seem to understand that we are the expert, we are responsible and we deserve to be paid. The manuals that all shops and insurer’s use is written to repair new undamaged cars. I’ve never worked on an undamaged car. Sand/Buff is part of the refinish process but not including in the time allowance to prep and spray the panel. Its a required step. Dirt and trash can be minimized but cannot be eliminated. With detail lines in panels so sharp applying the clear dryer to avoid runs can lead to texture differences. Higher pressure required to apply CC creates more air activity. Yes whole panels need to be buffed to make texture and orange peel match. Paint a black Mercedes hood and don’t  buff it and I will show you a black Mercedes that looks like its been painted. Yes one out a hundred are maybe acceptable but most of our customers, even wholesalers, will not accept an un-buffed repair especially top surfaces. Remember insurers brainwash their employees who then try to brain wash you by minimizing our trade. They consider all shops the same and we know that is far from the truth. An un-buffed repair would never leave our shop not because of dirt alone but because of texture, gloss and uniformity to adjacent panels that also require buffing. Some colors you cannot wet-sand and buff out dirt so they have to be ultra clean, we still sand and buff them. Lint or base dust still attack. We pre-clean the car, wash it again before painting, wash under the hood, tack between coats, use two different tack rags, clean the booth, change the filters regularly, wet it between jobs, use clean suits, keep hoses off the floor, use anti static cleaners, deionizing blow guns, tack the surrounding masking and still a few base particles can speckle a repair. The manuals all allow about 30% of the refinish labor to buff. How we use that labor is up to the shop and part of the flat rate refinish process and is OWED. WE also bill for glazing as glazing takes considerable added time and then add for required detailing. The reason they don’t want to pay is because you let them get away with it.

 

Mike Orso, President of NYSACTA