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  • Monitors won't complete

    A smog tech in Malibu has a question on a 2001 Ford E350 (Engine: V10; Transmission: AUTOMATIC). He wrote this to our online help site. Any thoughts?

    TheProblem: CAN NOT GET MONITORS TO COMPLETE. IN MODE 6 IT PASSES EVERY TID EXCEPT 56. THE MAX VALUE IS 5000 BUT THE MEASURED VALUE CONTINUES TO CLIMB THE LONGER THE CAR RUNS. ENGINE TEMP IS IS OVER 194. COULD FIND NO VACUUM LEAKS BUT FUEL TRIM WAS AROUND 18 ON BOTH BANKS. CHANGED THE MAF AND RESET ADAPTIVES. LTFT IS NOW AROUND 10. NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT OR PENDING CODES. DRIVEN FOR 40 PLUS MILES.


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  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    Edited by Peter, 3 years ago

  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    TID $56 is for misfire profile learn.  There is always a variance between the crank sensors and reluctors that needs to be learned, and it will clear anytime the battery is disconnected or power to the ECM is lost.  Look at the value stored KOEO...if the profile has been learned it should read 500 times the number of cylinders:  2000 for a 4, 3000 for a 6 and 4000 for an 8 cylinder.

    There is a specific drive cycle that must be met for the profile to learn again.  Without it, the misfire monitor will not run, even if the tool says "Complete".

    HTH!

  • drive cycle

    How do you run the drive cycle for this. alldata does not say anything about it. i have driven the car for over 60 miles now. when i check the KOEO tid 56 it shows 5000 max and 0 measured start it and let it idle and it still shows 0, start driving it and it starts climbing and within 1 minute is over the 5000 and fail. i have seen it as high as 60,000 plus. i tested the signature of the crank sensor and it looks perfect. i have not tested the cam sensor yet and there it no pid for it. there is also no pending or current codes and the car runs perfect.

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    • By GTURNER400
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  • 2001 Volvo V40 Turbo

    I also have this 01 V40 that will not set the o2 or cat monitors. It is a customer assistance program car. All data says the temp is very important and they state 194f. The car was running in the 170s I have changed the thermostat three times ending with one from Volvo and changed the temp sensor, also Volvo. The car still runs between 189 and 196, 70% of the time under 194. I had a 99 V70, looks like the same engine with no turbo and it also had a stuck open thermostat, I replaced it with one of the three from the v40 and it now also runs 189 to 196 but it passed its monitors. All data does not state 194f on the 99 v70 so I am still uncertain if the temp is the cause on the v40. It seems odd the thermostat would be a 195f and they need it to run at 194f minimum. I called the Volvo dealership and a Volvo specialist; the specialist reset all adaptives for me thinking that would help. The dealer had the same exact car with the same monitors not complete and does not know what is wrong with it. This car has been driven at least 150 miles since I first saw it a week ago. I called the C.A.P. program about this car and they told me it failed 2 years ago with these monitors not done and code 128 and 130, temp sensor and o2 sensor faults. It later passed with the monitors still not set, at the time 2 monitors were allowed to not be set. The o2 sensor appears to work extremely fast. There are no pending or current codes.

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    • By GTURNER400
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  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    Let's tackle the Ford first.  The relearn happens during decels from 60 mph to 40 mph...no braking.  Simply driving it will not relearn the profile.  Here's the info from Ford that may help:

    The HDR Misfire Monitor uses a high data rate crankshaft position signal, (i.e. 18 position references per crankshaft revolution [20 on a V-10]). This high resolution signal is processed using two different algorithms. The first algorithm, called pattern cancellation, is optimized to detect low rates of misfire. The algorithm learns the normal pattern of cylinder accelerations from the mostly good firing events and is then able to accurately detect deviations from that pattern. The second algorithm is optimized to detect "hard" misfires, i.e. one or more continuously misfiring cylinders. This algorithm filters the high resolution crankshaft velocity signal to remove some of the crankshaft torsional vibrations that degrade signal to noise. This significantly improves detection capability for continuous misfires. Both algorithms produce a deviant cylinder acceleration value which is used in evaluating misfire in the "General Misfire Algorithm Processing" section below.

    Due to the high data processing requirements, the HDR algorithms could not be implemented in the PCM microprocessor. They are implemented in a separate chip in the PCM called an "AICE" chip. The PCM microprocessor communicates with the AICE chip using a dedicated serial communication link. The output of the AICE chip (the cylinder acceleration values) is sent to the PCM microprocessor for additional processing as described below. Lack of serial communication or an invalid crank or cam sensor output sets a P1309 DTC.

    "Profile correction" software is used to "learn" and correct for mechanical inaccuracies in crankshaft tooth spacing under de-fueled engine conditions (requires three 60 to 40 mph no-braking decels after Keep Alive Memory has been reset). If KAM has been reset, the PCM microprocessor initiates a special routine which computes correction factors for each of the 18 (or 20) position references and sends these correction factors back to the AICE chip to be used for subsequent misfire signal processing. These learned corrections improve the high rpm capability of the monitor. The misfire monitor is not active until a profile has been learned.

  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    Now let's try the Volvo.  If any monitor will not complete its tests, its because part of the test failed (check mode $06 for clues), or a component or system that is needed for the test isn't working properly (any other monitors not completed?).  What scan tool are you using to check the monitor and code status?

    I have had cases where generic code readers will not reveal an emissions related, factory specific code.

  • on the volvo

    i am using a snap on solos pro. no volvo software yet. mode 6 showes not available on all but one and the one that has a value passed.

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    • By GTURNER400
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  • 2001 FORD E350

    THAT DID THE TRICK FOR THE MODE 6 TID 56 FAIL BUT STILL NO MONITORS. I AM GOING TO LET IT COOL OFF AND DRIVE IT AGAIN.

    Edited by GTURNER400, 3 years ago

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  • E350

    DROVE IT AGAIN STILL WON'T RUN THE O2 OR O2 HEATER. ALL MODE 6 TESTS ARE PASSED OR INFORMATION NOT AVAILABLE YET. IT DOES NOT HAVE AN EVAP MONITOR BUT I JUST PUT GAS IN IT JUST IN CASE AND WILL TRY DRIVING IT AGAIN. ANY OTHER IDEAS?

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  • 2001 VOLVO

    I WAS ABLE TO COMPLETE A DRIVE CYCLE WITH THE TEMP OVER THE REQUIRED AMOUNT THE ENTIRE TIME BUT IT STILL DID NOT RUN THE CAT OR O2 MONITOR. BOTH O2 SENSORS ARE FACTORY AND ARE WORKING PROPERLY, UNDER 50 MS RISE TIME AND 100 MV TO 900MV. ACCORDING TO RECORDS THESE MONITORS HAVE NOT RESET IN THE LAST 35,000 MILES AND 2 YEARS.

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  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    First, the Ford.  You say the monitors won't run.  And that it doesn't have an EVAP monitor?  I'm betting it does...never saw a domestic without one.

    When looking at the status of the monitors, you will only see a few different responses.  Complete or Incomplete and Ready or Not Ready mean the same thing.  An Incomplete monitor or Not Ready monitor is one that has not completed its testing, or it can't complete its testing because of a problem.  The continous monitors, that is Misfire, Fuel and Comprehensive Component generally read Complete right away but the others can take quite a bit to get them to complete.

    Any monitor that says NA or Not Available means that the car doesn't use that monitor.

    Each monitor has its own drive cycle...that is, the conditions of operation in a specific order that must occur for the computer to run its tests. The EVAP monitor is the most involved, often requiring an overnight cold soak followed by very specific driving conditions.  One criteria is that the full tank be between 1/8 to 7/8 of a tank.  A full tank will not allow the monitor to run.

    So, please go back and tell us the name and status of all the monitors your Solus lists, and let's go from there.  But I suspect that now, the EVAP monitor is the one hanging you up.

  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    I should add that you'll find the monitor results in Mode $01, not Mode $06.  Mode $06 is a list of the individual test results for the non-continuous monitors...or all those other than misfire, fuel and comprehensive component.

    This link may help:

    http://motorage.search-autoparts.com/motorage/Technical/Monitoring-the-vehicles-action/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/641565

    Let's see the Mode $01 list for the Volvo too...

    Edited by Peter, 3 years ago

  • E350

    THE ONLY MONITORS OTHER THAN MISSFIRE AND COMPONETS ARE O2 SENSOR AND O2 HEATER. CAT AND EVAP BOTH SAY NOT APPLICABLE. MODE 1 IS ALL THE DATA FIELDS WHAT DATA DO YOU WANT?

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    • By GTURNER400
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  • SOLUS PRO

    THE MONITORS ARE UNDER MONITORS ON THE SOLUS WHEN YOU ARE IN GLOBAL. THE BRICK USED TO HAVE THEM IN THE MODE 1 DATA FIELDS BUT NOT THE SOLUS. THE VOLVO ALSO HAS ONLY MISS FIRE, COMPONENT, CAT, EVAP AND O2 SENSOR. NO HEATER, THE EVAP RUNS RATHER QUICKLY BUT CAT AND O2 REFUSE TO RUN.

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  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    Sticking with the Ford for now...

    It is not possible to have a "not available" cat monitor and I doubt the validity of a "not available" evap monitor.  Have you tried another scan tool?

    If the 02 and the 02 heater monitors are "not complete" then suspect a fault in the 02 heaters/circuit.  The 02 won't complete if the 02 heater isn't complete first.  Look for pending codes in mode $07.

     

  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    As for the Volvo, if its the 02 and Cat monitors, suspect a problem in the 02 monitor run.  May need a tool capable of accessing enhanced data in the Volvo to see if a code is hiding there.  Come to think of it, try looking for enhanced codes in the Ford too...

  • E350

    THE SCAN TOOL HAS THE FORD SOFTWARE AND HAS NO PENDING CODES, IT IS A HEAVY DUTY VEHICLE AND I ASSUME THAT IS WHY IT DOES NOT HAVE A CAT OR EVAP MONITOR. I COULD NOT BELIVE IT WHEN I SAW IT AS WELL BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE THOSE MONITORS. THE SCAN TOOL JUST GOT THE LATEST SOFTWARE AND THOSE MONITORS WERE N/A ON THE OLD AND NEW SOFTWARE.

    Edited by GTURNER400, 3 years ago

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  • E350

    I FOUND ONE OF THE O2 SENSOR HEATERS HAD HIGH RESISTANCE HOT SO I CHANGED BOTH OF THEM. IT DOES NOT HAVE AN AFTER CAT O2 SENSOR. I DROVE AND THE MONITORS STILL DID NOT PASS. THE MODE 6 TID 56 STARTED SHOWING FAIL AGAIN. I DID THE 60 TO 40 AT LEAST 6 TIMES AND IT IS STILL FAILING TID 56.

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    • By GTURNER400
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  • 2001 Volvo V40 Turbo

    I TALKED TO ANOTHER GOLD SHIELD STATION THAT HAD THE EXACT SAME CAR WITH THE SAME PROBLEM. HE CHANGED O2 SENSORS, THERMOSTAT AND TEMP SENSOR THEN FINALLY SENT TO THE DEALER AND TOLD THEM TO PUT A NEW ECU IN IT. THE MONITORS WERE DONE BEFORE IT GOT BACK TO HIM.

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    • By GTURNER400
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  • Re: Monitors won't complete

    Duh...you said this was a HD vehicle and it has no downstream 02 sensor.  This vehicle (the E350) is not required to meet OBDII standards.

    To be sure, check the underhood emissions label to see if it says "OBD II certified" on the label.

    Without a downstream sensor, it can't run the cat monitor...it doesn't have the information it needs.

    And if it doesn't meet the certification, all the rest means little or nothing...

     

    HTH!

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